Wednesday, April 20, 2011

Hey, we're on the SAME SIDE!

AmwayImage via WikipediaRecently, I seem to have gone into some sort of a "debate" on the merits of Amway with a guy called David Brear on another blog called

The comments started calmly enough... I was thanked for bringing attention to the scam known as TVI Express. However, here Mr. Brear calls TVI Express "Amway Copy Cat". 

So I posted a few comments thanking them. 

Then David Brear goes on claiming I am some sort of expert, then ascribe some sort of a conspiracy group behind TVI Express. Quote: "Kasey Chang is undoubtedly a world authority on 'business opportunity' fraud in general, and the 'TVI Express' racket in particular"

So I posted what I have on the "mastermind" behind TVI Express, Tarun Trikha. 

David Brear, however, is completely fixated on Amway, as he immediately starts pointing out how Tarun Trikha seem to be using Amway cult tactics

I pointed out that TVI Express is far more of a scam than Amway ever could be. Amway at least HAVE some products, while TVI Express have no products AT ALL. Thus, Amway *could* be operated legally and ethically if one chooses to do so. 

Then the blog owner, Shyam pointed out that an Indian court had recently ruled that Amway India violated the Indian version of the anti-pyramid laws

So I replied that I am not familiar with Indian law, and one should be concentrating on the true scams such as TVI Express, instead of something that *may* still yet operate legitimately, such as Amway. 

That comment was not well received by Mr. David Brear. Apparently, my failure to join him in the wholesale condemnation of Amway (and probably the entire MLM industry) had made me his enemy, as his tone turned downright hostile. In not so many words, he called me an Amway apologist, claimed that I was trying to defend Amway cult and all that. 

So I repeated my comment, that compared to TVI Express, Amway is quite benign. I even pointed him to Robert L. Fitzpatrick's "False Profits" blog. That's a real anti-pyramid crusader. 

That's not enough to appease David Brear though. He claims I was being condescending, that I assumed they don't know about Mr. Fitzpatrick, then goes into some conspiracy about how the US government condones MLM to scam people around the world. Then he links up religious right to the MLM industry. 

Frankly, I have NO position on Amway. It has been operating legally in the US (and elsewhere) for DECADES. What Amway does in INDIA, frankly, is none of my business. I have not studied Amway in any way, shape, or form, except peripherally as part of studying up on TVI Express, and how TVI Express scam CANNOT be multi-level marketing. As Amway basically defined what is legal MLM in the US, I know it "somewhat", nowhere well enough to defend against Mr. Brear's tirade that essentially said "you're either with us (i.e. against Amway) or against us."

So why can't Mr. Brear see that we're on the SAME SIDE, AGAINST FRAUD AND ABUSE? What's with the "you're with us or against us" attitude? 

What Mr. Brear have... is a reading comprehension problem. 

I wrote that Amway *can* be operated ethically, by selling stuff, and ignore the cultish ways like buying all those training packages and recruiting people. (You can recruit a few who are good marketers / sellers) and I meant that. 

However, it appears that Mr. Brear didn't read that. What he actually read was "Amway IS ethical", which is clearly NOT what I wrote. I am well aware of some of the accusations regarding Amway "cult" and related companies,like Quixtar, as one cannot help to read some when searching for MLM abuse examples. Confession: I *have* been recruited for Quixtar and I refused. They are horribly annoying. 

Thus, please drop that "you're with me or against me" attitude. It makes you sound like a fanatic. 

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ibofightback said...

I've been "debating" (if you can use that word) with Brear for years. He's a certifiable loon, incredibly fixated on Amway, and he's pretty much recruited Shyam into his little anti-Amway cult.

Kasey Chang said...

If you are indeed Mr. Steadman, as Mr. Brear had alleged, why was your blog not updated for YEARS?

There is enough evidence for some to call Amway a cult. (but then, a lot of MLMs often operate like cults) I know NZ/Aus calls Mannatech a cult.

Tex said...

I've been "debating" (if you can use that word) with ibofb for years. I've even met him, and he's a certificable loon, incredibly fixated on denying the well documented Amway Tool Scam, and he's pretty much recruited others into his little "Ignore the Amway Tool Scam" cult. LOL

Shazia Sahari said...

Mannatech survived the investigation that was mounted against it by the State of Texas in its lawsuit against the company, and was not found guilty of any wrong doing. Had there been a single shred of evidence linking Mannatech scam, the state would have launched a devastating legal assault that would have forced the company to stop selling glyconutrients, and possibly stop doing business altogether.